B2B is Luxury Marketing (Part 3/3)

In the third and final episode of our series exploring the fusion of luxury and B2B marketing principles, we delve into how these sectors can inspire one another towards innovative strategies for engagement and growth. This episode, hosted by Tom Gatten, CEO of Adzact, features insights from Jennifer Johnson of Deel, Kathryn Strachan of Copy House, Sonia Hobbs, with her extensive experience in automotive luxury marketing, and Colm O’Shea, a former strategic advisor to luxury companies. Our panellists uncover the rapid increase in B2B digital marketing spending, the challenges of targeting niche audiences, and the importance of creating personalized customer experiences for building trust and nurturing long-term relationships. They also discuss the roles of brand advocates and empathetic marketing in connecting deeply with customers.

Tune in to discover actionable strategies for elevating your B2B marketing by integrating the bespoke, customer-centric approaches of luxury branding.

Guests

Jennifer Johnson, Marketing Manager at Deel

Kathryn Strachan, CEO at CopyHouse

Colm O'Shea, Senior Leader | Marketing & Digital Growth at BCG

my name is Tom Gatten, and I run Adzact , which is a new B2B ad platform. Over the last year we have run this podcast. Uh, we have had about 300 very experienced B2B marketers, all of whom are controlling significant digital ad spend on the podcast

And a couple of times we have reached out to other sectors for inspiration. B2B digital marketing is growing so quickly in terms of spend 6,000,000,000 in 2019, 14,000,000,000 in 2022 and is expected to be. eMarketer expects it to be

at 24 billion by next year. So this has got to be one of the fastest growing sectors in the world apart from, you know, AI and green energy and things. And so many people we speak with have come from consumer marketing

And the skills that B2B marketers are going to need in the future are going to be different from the ones that our teams have today. And one of the areas we've been interested in is luxury. Luxury marketers we've spoken with so far face the challenge of niche audiences. Relatively small

audience sizes, great potential confusion around who amongst the many people that are interested in this product actually have the means to buy the need to track engagement and data on individuals over a really long period of time whilst complying with GDPR and

all of these challenges are also challenges faced by B2B marketers. So we felt that it was really, potentially really interesting to reach out to people that have had some experience of the luxury world, like column Sonia, um, to explore whether there are any connections between these two worlds and whether there's anything we can learn as

B2B digital marketers skills explode and their capacity for spending and making interesting creative grows in the next few years. So let me first call on us to introduce one another again. Perhaps you would start.

Sure. Thanks, Thomas

Uh, my name is Jen Johnson, and I'm the marketing manager for the UK and Ireland at Deal. And in my role, I'm responsible for brand awareness and demand generation in that region by spearheading the marketing strategy and executing on it.

Thank you so much, Jen and Colin. Perhaps you would

uh, introduce, um, a couple of experiences that you've had, um, over the last few years that might be relevant.

Yeah. So I'm based in London from Dublin, but the last couple of years I've spent working for Forrester, uh, where I was strategic advisor to some big companies in the luxury space

uh, and most lately working for Boston Consulting Group. Before that, I worked industry side as well for many years. Thank you. Marketing, B2B and B2C. So, um, my thing about B2B today.

I'm so sorry, Colin. You're breaking

up a little there. Um, um, could you just say the last the last sentence again?

Yeah, I would say more. More of the stuff I've worked on in luxury has been B to C, but let's see what comes up in B2B today.

Okay. Lovely. Thank you. Thank you so much, Catherine. Perhaps you would introduce

yourself quickly.

Hi, everybody. Uh, I'm Catherine Strachan, and I own a digital content marketing agency called copy House. Um, we work globally with clients in the US as well as UK, but we, um. Yeah, we focus on the tech sector, so are far more B2B inclined, though a lot of our clients also

have a B2C element or B2B, B2C, um, and they all sell, you know, high, high value items. Um, you know, whether or not you might class a, uh, a very expensive piece of technology as luxury, uh, I think is maybe a different question, but, um, have quite a lot of experience with that niche marketing, and that's

super hyper targeting and thinking about things from a, the value of a lead rather than the quantity of a lead. Um, so you have a lot of experience in this area.

Yeah. And, Catherine, um, according to LinkedIn, you are the most connected person amongst all of the 300 high spending B2B digital advertisers

that we've had on the podcast over the last year. Um, but yeah.

Awesome.

Yeah, I have my personal brand for a long time. It's been 4 or 5 years in the making, but yeah, 13,000 followers, which I think is pretty good.

Um, and, you know, and they're all the people that we've had on the podcast. It's not just that you have the most

followers or whatever there. You have the most followers amongst the people and connections amongst the people we've had on the podcast. Um, yeah. So, Sonia, perhaps you would, um, give us a little intro on yourself.

Yeah. Hi. Um, so. Yes. Sonia. Sonia Hobbs I'm currently sort of back, um, looking to to reignite

my sort of consultancy, marketing consultancy business. But for the last 25 years, I've been, um, in the automotive sector, predominantly in sales and marketing, um, working with some very wonderful, beautiful, luxurious brands. More recently, with Harwood's group, they probably had the most. I probably worked with the most luxurious brands like Aston Martin

Bentley, McLaren, some really super, super brands. And I've always been, it's always been B2C. But I mean, I guess when you get into that luxury sector, you're really working with decision makers that are probably, um, you know, highly respected, um, business individuals. So it almost becomes a different cell

So my formative years, it was around selling volume. It's a very different market place to be when you're selling those kind of commodities. Um, it's a completely different experience and a completely different approach. So I think I'm hoping that some of my sort of experience in selling to those type of, um, individuals will help in what

obviously Tom's doing with, with their platform. So, um, yeah, that's my sort of background.

That's right. Yeah. I mean, that's really the connection that I'm hoping to discover and explore. I was speaking with someone this morning. They have a thousand accounts globally, and most of their time is spent trying to understand the individuals within the accounts rather than the accounts themselves, which they know really

really well already. Um, and so, yeah. Um, so I think, I think that's probably where the connection is. So I want to I want to try and start by exploring. I think the most interesting thing for the B2B marketers will be to understand what's the cutting edge in luxury, or rather, to put it another way, what's changing? So perhaps

Sonia and Colm, um, could you tell us a little bit about in luxury marketing, what has been what are the kind of major trends or changes that you have seen throughout your career or your experience with luxury brands? How is it that luxury brands used to go to market, and how

do you think they are going to change what they're doing today into the future as well? I think that'll be really that'll be really interesting.

Just about some of the clients I had. I mean, I don't know exactly who's getting this, uh, podcast. Um, Tom. But let me talk a little bit about some of the 2 or 3. One on French houses of brands. You'll know who exactly who I'm talking about. Um, so, like the challenge for those ones

and I take the one that has 13 different brands within it is like each of those different brands has a different type of marketing setup. And then within those overall House of brands and 13/10, a lot of them don't talk to each other. So one of the challenges would have been, uh, for example, and I take

this more from the B2C side than B2B, the there was also a centralized point within that house of brands that was supposed to manipulate out the use of data, for example, but they were super challenged by doing that, and I don't think it's just unique to them. So that's

one area where I think just this use of data and better interaction of data from premium brands, from houses of brands like that, both in use by B2B and B2C, that's a key area that needs enhancement. Then also another point, and this is more 3 or 4 years ago was

the whole focus around personalization. Um, we at Forrester, where I was at the time, we focused typically on the customers having maybe 3 or 4 different personas that they operate with, with, and then market out to that way. That's typically what we went to those clients with

So those were two things. The third thing, and I was running an operation where people in different industries were were 8 or 9 different industries. It was we're talking to each other. It's like thought leadership. A lot of those, um, luxury brands didn't really want to talk to any other sector apart from other luxury ones, which I think

was quite short sighted or narrow minded. I narrow sided or whatever way you want to say it, because some of the best things you can learn could be from startups, other industries, whether it be financial services, pharma, telco, whatever. So I think this is can you give us an can you give us an anecdote column?

What were the what were some of the things that

the luxury brand like when I, when I, when I would run one of the in-person meetings, it would be one of those houses of brands with specifically only want to talk to other, uh, competitors if they were going to talk to them.

Um, so whereas I found in other industries it was not so

much the case. I would have maybe Vodafone talking to shell, for example, and they'd be happy to do so. Right?

Yeah.

So they believe there was something they believed there was something unique about the marketing to the high net worth individuals. That was just very different.

Yeah. I don't even know if it was

a unique thing. But you do. You do have to kind of also treat those clients with kind of kid gloves as well. I would say as well, there is definitely there was definitely a perception that and there it is true. They are premium top, the top notch premium brands

So therefore the client or the end customer and therefore also the B2B customer. I'd say Sonya, this is the same probably you've found in automotive with those premium ones maybe I don't know. Yeah, that's my take on it.

Yeah, yeah

I mean I think the interesting thing for, for us is that whilst the, the marketing approach hasn't really changed, what needed to change probably was the understanding of the new target audience. And what I mean by that is if you take luxury automotive brands like Bentley, Aston Martin, they're very stereotypical in who they

believe their their target customer is. And, you know, historically it would have been affluent, um, men and of a certain age who would drive that type of luxury product. Nowadays, it, you know, the actual target audience is going to be completely different, even by 2030. It's going to

be, yes, high net worth individuals, but mainly young. And possibly the biggest growth area is female. So what we've had to to adapt is how we communicate. So, you know, marketing is all about planning attention to detail, deep understanding of the customer. But what we've got to try and do, especially in luxury

is how do you articulate your value, your unique value proposition to that new target audience, and how do you identify and emphasize your brand and why they should you know, why they should buy from you. And it's all around. You know, nowadays it's around craftsmanship, experiences, how you make them feel. Um, what

they get as a result of being identified or connected to that brand. Um, you know, Bentley in particular has had to come a real full circle. I mean, it really had to understand that there is a huge market that they have never been attracted to. Um, and they've got to try and emphasize why you

know, their brand and why you would choose Bentley rather than any, any other, you know, supercar and what they've where they I guess where they've ended up is focusing on the, the personalization element of that brand. So you can have a unique bespoke car, you can experience it being built. You can it

nowadays the materials need to be obviously high quality, but they've got to be sustainable. There's got to be some social responsibility around owning that product. Um, because that's what's now important to those, to those new customers. And it's we've had to work really hard to understand what that means. So from a marketing point of view, it's it's all connected

There's a consistent brand identity and message. And at the same time the communication needs to be completely personalized. So they need to think that it's exclusive to them. When, you know, even when it's in the luxury sector, you're still having to do marketing a little bit on mass. Um, you know, in order to make it effective and cost effective

as well. But they need to feel like you're always talking to them individually, and it's about them and their connection.

I think that there are clearly there are clearly kind of table stakes aspects of I think I thought it was really interesting. Uh, Colin, when you were talking about the luxury marketers not wanting to be necessarily

in a room with other people that weren't weren't at that kind of in that category. When I've been creating this podcast, we've done a couple of different recordings. I have found it fascinating people's reactions to what we're doing. Um, when I've been asking people, do you know anyone that works in the luxury space? And everyone seems to say, oh no, I don't know anyone that posh

or that rich and no, no, people that work in the luxury space, not people that are consuming huge amounts of luxury goods. But clearly there is a mental transference from the, you know, the status of the people that you're selling to, to the people that are actually selling it, which would which I think makes sense, because the people that are buying luxury

goods wants to want to buy from people that are at the same status at least, or even a higher status than them. I think it's probably really interesting to explore that in the context of B2B, because I'm I'm sure that the creation of status around is an important part of a brand, and buyers

of a B2B product will want to be in a club, will want to be part of a high status club of people that are buying certain B2B products. Catherine and Jenna, be really interested to know your your thoughts on this. Do you think there's something that that B2B brands can do to create a an attractive

aspirational status around their brand that'll make buyers want to be in that club?

Yeah, I mean, you definitely see it with community based marketing. So like, Salesforce is a really great example of a brand that has built a really strong community and then almost use that community as a way to sell into

to other people and attract other people. I think as well, there's an element of, you know, the people who are perhaps promoting the the B2B companies should be people who speak the same language as the target audience. So, you know, for example, we build a lot of personal brands on LinkedIn, and, you know, the personal brand of a CTO is going to be able to speak

to another CTO far better than like a salesperson will be able to, because they understand that language. They already have that network and they kind of it's more of that peer to peer marketing rather than like a sales person or even a company founder CEO, you know, trying to establish those relationships, which could seem unauthentic

Um, so, I mean, I think there's definitely, definitely shared similarities there, both in like the people who are selling it, being able to speak and connect with them on the same sort of level and understanding their world. Um, and then, you know, with community based marketing, which, you know, is becoming increasingly more popular in B2B

as B2B brands realize that they're actually marketing and selling to people, and people like connections and relationships and experiences and all of these things that we've kind of been talking about in regards to the luxury space. I mean, it all kind of translates, um, and is becoming increasingly more common and popular in B2B

to think about it from that perspective, rather than one company selling to another. Um, because that's not really the case.

It's building credibility, isn't it? Because that's what people are, you know, in those kind of spaces, are looking for, um, authentic, as you said, for its credibility in, in what you're saying, as well as, um, how you do it. So

we've always had to look to build, as you say, those communities. And we we did one with Bentley where we built a female only community because they were a they were a target audience that Bentley really wanted to get, you know, get to know and get to understand what what makes them, you know, want to buy something? Um, but they had to they had

to have that credibility. We had to have that credibility with them. So we created a community and and the individuals that we were there and who were there to support them very much. Understood. Um, maybe how, you know, how they were feeling. And again, they were senior individuals in their own right in businesses. Um, and they had never been spoken to in a way

that made them feel, you know. Yeah, they they felt they were misunderstood or not even listened to when they come into a normal automotive experience buying a car. Um, you know, unfortunately, it's still the case where you just get spoken to in a way that doesn't make you feel very confident in who you're speaking to. And

that they understand what you need and what they want. Um, so we created a safe environment for them to ask the questions they've always wanted to ask, which sometimes they feel, you know, are silly questions, but they're not, because there's so much confusion around if you talk about EV in particular, that, you know, being able to ask questions and get honest, credible answers

back gave us a way in which we could almost it wasn't really selling to them. We ended up selling to them because they were made to feel that actually, you know, they were being listened to and that this was this was a product they wanted to buy, and therefore they understood better. And they they made their own choices and decisions based on that information.

I think the idea of creating a safe community

is a really interesting is a really interesting idea. And when we, uh, we recently spoke to, um, a chap called Charles who runs a, um, runs the insurance side of a mega yacht brokerage. Um, some of you may have been on that recording, um, where, you know, he was talking about developing relationships with

people over really seriously long periods of time at five, ten years. Now, that may be out of the out of the capability of your average venture backed B2B company. Um, but you've said, Catherine, that those kind of networks and human relationships are still incredibly important. I'm really interested to know, Sonya, you talked

a little bit about, um, the clothes that people wear and the attitudes that the people working in the brands have. Are there learnings that we in B2B can take from if those relationships are really, really important? Can we learn from luxury about how to position ourselves as

that safe community of of peers that the luxury brands do? Tell us a bit more about that.

Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, it was interesting because I mean, again, traditionally, um, you know, any, any automotive business even, you know, not just luxury, it was suited and booted. You know, it was very stereotypical

unfortunately very male orientated. And, and the, the environment was almost, um, sort of described as stuffy and, um, unwelcoming and very sort of intimidating and, you know, and that's not just for, you know, you know, any females

and females in particular, but, you know, just a younger generation who have the wealth, who want to buy luxury products, felt put off by coming into an environment where they're just faced with just, you know, a completely sterile, very unwelcoming. And so they've almost gone the complete opposite. It's called we've called it modern luxury

So it's, it's you're still very smart, but it's you've taken the suits away, you've taken desks away, you've created environments that are very, you know, we've almost taken customers away from the showrooms and taken them into unique locations where there's a connection and a history and heritage and giving them a really, um, you know, not casual

to the point where, you know, there's no serious conversation is being had, but it's very, um, trying to find the right word. It's less intimidating if they come in and they relax and they feel comfortable, and they actually talk to people who just talk about the product, who just have. No, I'm not trying to sell to them whatsoever. And they're building strategic relationships and long terme relationships

But we've created, you know, exclusive, limited opportunities so it doesn't feel like it's just to the general public where they can come in and consider those, you know, those products and have a bespoke, personalized experience. And, you know, something I even learned with Ford is it's they won't remember what you say, but they remember how you make them feel. So it

was about creating an environment that was conducive to actually learning and actually taking something away. And, you know, it can take three years, four years to sell a Bentley. But, you know, once you're you're crafting that experience and it has to be unique, personalized to that individual. Um, then the retention

in and customer lifetime opportunity is huge. And we've got customers who've bought 13 cars over a very long period. And that's how about just engaging with them at that really emotional level? Um, but interestingly enough, they felt that that stuffy environment that was quite traditional was a barrier to

customers feeling comfortable enough, even buying those kind of large ticket items and relaxing. I know it seems weird, but relaxing. A dress code melt made them feel more comfortable, even though you think, oh my God, it's super luxury. You're spending an awful lot of money. Surely you want somebody in a suit? No. Not necessarily. You still need to give a

very, you know, personalized, very professional service, but you don't need to make, you know, because I tell you what, the modern day, you know, luxury customer isn't suited and booted and they might be, you know, very, very wealthy individuals, but they don't often go to work in a suit anymore. The B2B guys take away those barriers

Do the B2B guys do we think there's something that that B2B can do to develop more, um, open, um, friendly, peer like relationships between brands and buyers?

Yeah. I mean, it's similar in a lot of ways because they also have really long sales cycles. So I mean

when you're selling higher value items, be it luxury or, you know, a tech stack, you are looking at longer sales cycles because it's a much riskier decision. I mean, if you buy a pair of shoes for £20 and you don't like them, you return them. It's easy. If you buy like a super yacht that you don't like, it's probably a lot harder to return

it. Um, and it's the same in the B2B world. So you are looking at really long sales cycles and you are like as a marketer, you then have to think about how you connect with people and like nurture those relationships throughout. You know, it can take on average it's 6 to 12 months, but it can take a lot longer than that. Some brands are looking at 18 months,

two years. And how do you actually like create those experiences and build those relationships. So this is where like in-person events and like roundtable invites and like getting on their level and like spending time building a relationship that's not just like buy from me right now. Um, and that's very different than, like low, low value item, like B2C

where, you know, it's about the volume. You know, you need to sell thousands of pairs of 20, £20 shoes to be able to have a successful and thriving business. When you're looking at the higher end of the market, you know you probably only need to sell, you know, 5 or 6 a year to be to be really successful. So you're looking more at the

quality of, you know, the relationships and the leads. And that then means, yeah, building those relationships on a 1 to 1. And that's where this is where like ABM marketing approaches start to come in and that sort of nurturing. But yeah, I mean getting on their level and going to where they are. So I mean, if if they are coming into a car dealership

like, you know, dressed, I don't know, in t shirts and jeans and like, you know, your people, there should also be dressed in t shirts and jeans and it's about mirroring and essentially, um, psychologically saying, you know, we're like you, we understand you. So I mean, it's looking at that environment and thinking about

what you can do to your environment, to your team, to your marketing, to like how you present yourself that connects to them on that level. Um, but I mean, it's it just the actual like execution of it is what differs. But fundamentally, it's the same sort of ideology and approach and, you know, the same psychological

triggers that we're pulling as well as marketers when, when we start to do that mirroring.

I definitely agree with you, Catherine, 100%. Um, looking at like the luxury versus B2B market, like in B2B, we definitely try to emphasize like experience

less and really, um, pull away from like the sale. But what added value is there for the prospect or customer, whether that's like, uh, content, whether that's being able to connect them with other peers within their network or within, like other networks, and being

able to really, um, give them what they need before they're even ready to buy, essentially, um, to, to establish trust and further nurture that relationship.

Um, let's, let's talk a bit about experiences. I think that's a really interesting place to place to start. Um, I think we have

uh, I'd be really interested to hear Colm and Sonya about your experiences with luxury brands, creating experiences for the purposes of brand development and developing trust as, as Jen says, um, what have you seen that works? And I'd also be interested to know what the luxury brands

do that, uh, perhaps, you know, is expensive and doesn't work.

Yeah, you've probably got more examples of the expensive and doesn't work, I think really from that, but. Well, only because traditionally I think I've mentioned this before, but traditionally, you know, it was always

about just drive the car, um, you know, get, get the, get, get your customers in a car on a track and, and it speaks for itself and it sells itself. Well, yes. You know, you still need to experience the car, but I think today there's so much more to that purchase and there's so many more things that we need to understand about the individuals who are buying that

car, but what's important to them. So, you know, as I've mentioned before, sustainability, social responsibility, you know, how how has that car been built? You know, what's its green credentials?

Well, demonstrating that you share values. Yeah. Demonstrating that you share and that we actually take.

Yeah. And

therefore so yes. You know, just putting a car on a track is one way of, of getting the customer to, to drive or test, you know, put the car through its, through its motions. But the other, you know, there are you need to be a little bit more cleverer now. So we've had to join, you know, with some very like minded strategic partners to try and give the customer a complete

experience and understanding. So we've we, you know, we partnered up with a super yacht, for example. I think I've mentioned this before, we did this unique experience where the, you know, the target 30 or 40 customers were picked up in the car, taken to, um, to the to the yacht, sailed around the wind farm in

Brighton to understand that, you know, both brands were were very, um, you know, the green credentials and sustainability was a very important part of their brand's future. So that gave them that understanding. And then we gave them a unique, um, dining experience, um, and touched all a number of

other areas like, you know, wellbeing because it was, it was it was about the complete experience for that customer.

So the emotional the emotional experience, everything we did, um, was going to say the emotional, emotional takeaways of that experience are going to be really strongly connected with the values, in this case the sustainability value. And therefore hopefully

in them as well. They certainly will then relate that to.

And it was, but I think a lot I mean took a lot of planning, but it was so personalized that each, every every individual, we understood what was important to them. And there was an element in each of the experiences that sort

of like talks to that person, and they could understand that, you know, we'd really taken the the time and the effort. Now, you know, I know that's not always going to be possible, but what a lot of the luxury brands that I've worked with, they they're trying to stand out. They're trying to be what's, what's different about them. Why the why. You know why. Why

buy from Bentley when you can buy, you know, lots of other lovely luxury cars. Um, and it's, it's creating that connection to that customer that hopefully creates a long terme value proposition and a long terme relationship. Um, but the other key thing, as we, as I found him with my, with marketing is consistency

So you can deliver that. That was a wonderful experience. But then you've got to follow it up with lots of other, you know, personalized the personalized communication that followed up the, the ongoing, um, if you like, story that was being built. You know, you don't just do one thing and expect the customer to go, oh, great, thanks. I'm in. You

know, we found that it was a long terme. We knew it would be a long terme project, and we had to create and maintain that personalized, bespoke relationship. And when we did, the rewards were significant. Um, we've learnt a little bit. We've now corrected.

I'm so sorry. Sorry. I think we've got a bit of a delay. Yeah

Sorry, I keep interrupting you. Please. Sorry. Um. So what? Um, we've heard about research that the level of research that Bentley in that case did and that, um, that the superyacht, uh, vendors are doing on their, on their buyers and the families of their buyers over

really, really long periods of time. Obviously, with B2B, we need to do research to understand the audience in terms of the human beings within it, but also how they behave as a group of people. Um, how do you how do the B2B guys, how do you think that B2B companies do in this measure today? How good do you think they are at understanding their audiences

in various ways? How do you suspect this compares to others?

I can speak from one aspect of one of my Paris based, um, luxury clients. They and they cross over to B2B. They were actually they were actually interested in talking

with specific agencies that would monitor people's behavior when they go into a store. In other words, have a kind of a, um, a thing on your head that would monitor certain reactions and stuff like this. They were the only one, and I was working like a judge with about ten different, ten different industries. They

were the only type of client that was taking it to that level of trying to understand the the end customer, and therefore thereby also into B2B, I would say as well. So that was one smart example I saw of a of a customer really going the extra mile to try to really dig deep into

the behavioral marketing as it was then, which then also links into the emotional aspect you spoke about just now too.

So they were they were putting they were putting themselves in the customer's shoes by literally strapping a camera to their head.

Yeah, this this was a conversation.

Yeah.

I don't think it was exactly

It's nothing a camera to the head. But there are specific, uh, agencies out there that focus on these things and can advise on the actual interactions of a customer when going into a retail store, for example. Yeah. And that's what they were looking at. And linking that in digitalization, personalized

fashion on all different aspects of the buying cycle. Yeah.

I think, um, B2B brands haven't traditionally been as good at understanding their audience as B2C and haven't really been like pushing the boundaries. And some are still, you know, laggards behind. But a lot

of B2B companies are starting to think more strategically and really understand their audience and then use those insights to shape their marketing. And it's an approach that I really believe in. I call it a fishing where the fishes are. It's much easier to go to your audience where your audience already is, uh, than to try to get them to come to you. So when

you when I start to build a marketing strategy, I always start with, who are we looking to target? What are their pain points? Where are they already spending their time online? What is their life look like? How can we get in front of them on the channels and on the platforms that they're already using? And then I use those insights to create the marketing strategy, because

everything kind of stems from there, you know, even even how much budget you might need or what social channels you'll be on or, um, you know, what kind of content you'll create, what that content will be about. I mean, everything is everything should always come back to, you know, who you're trying to talk to. I mean, marketing, at the end of the day, is about building

these relationships, and it's a lot easier to build a relationship if you are thinking about the other person and, you know, doing selfless marketing, rather than only thinking about you or what channels you'd like to be on, because that doesn't really matter. What matters is how you connect with your audience, and you know that you don't need to be on all social channels

at all times to be able to do that. You know, you need to be on the right social channels at the right times. You know you need to create the right content. You need to speak to them in a language that they're going to understand. So it all it all comes back to, you know, understanding who you're trying to reach. Um, I mean, of course, B2B being a more traditional sector, there's still

quite a few brands that, you know, haven't haven't cottoned on to that. But I think the pandemic, one of the things that came out of the pandemic was a better understanding and appreciation for empathetic marketing and for being more customer specific and understanding their pain points. And you know, what they're going through and how you can support them as a brand. Um, and I think

that's quite universal across B2B and B2C. So, I mean, just even being able to talk about mental health, I mean, five years ago, mental health wasn't really something that was widely talked about, as if you weren't a brand that was specifically working in mental health. So, you know, being able to think a bit more holistically about our customers and our audience as people

rather than just, um, you know, somebody who buys something, but, you know, all the elements that make them them and how you can tap into that to build connections that are real and authentic.

Catherine, could you give us an anecdote to help us understand this empathetic marketing? And you

know, you were talking about understanding what someone's day looks like, understanding what someone's life looks like and what they see on the internet. For our listeners who are B2B advertisers, I'd be really interested to know how might that change what they do? How might that help?

Yeah, I mean, well, when you understand who you're trying to reach

it influences what channels you're on and how you can get in front of them. So say, for example, um, I'll take our audience. We tend to market to CMOs. Um, most of CMOs and tech companies are, you know, part of very small teams. So they don't have a massive resource to draw on. So they tend to be quite lonely. They maybe

are part of a C-suite that doesn't understand marketing. So we then went and created a podcast called Tech Marketers Uncorked. So plugging my own podcast, I created a podcast to create that community, to bring them together, to, like, give them a place where they could come and like, break out of that loneliness and that isolation, have a place where they could learn from other marketers

Yeah. So I mean, if you understand, kind of like their mindset. So, you know, a CMO at a large, uh, I don't know, um, retailer might be part of a massive marketing team and might not be lonely in the same way that a CMO at a tech company will be. You know, tech companies are run really lean. They always have small marketing teams, even

when they're doing very well and have a high valuation. So when you understand your audience and you know, it goes beyond just, you know, their role, but their mindset, what they're feeling when they're at work. And then you can tap into that to create community to like help them solve whatever challenge that is. Um, so, I mean, that's

perhaps one example of what it might look like, but it really depends on your audience and you know who you're trying to reach because it changes, changes quite drastically.

Um, yeah.

Was that an okay example?

Yeah, yeah, it was good. Well, I was speaking recently to a chap from paddle CMO at paddle who was talking about his, his, his targets or

finance directors, but he was trying to work out what they shared. And it turned out that they were all quite in a tight age group. And he invited them all to a blink182 concert, and it was very popular. It just happened to be that lots of those finance directors at Tech Startups happen to be of a certain generation. And, you know, so he used the kind of the

you know, um, uh, retro music to unite them. It was interesting.

Yeah. Or like a lot of CMOs and, you know, senior marketers have children. So, you know, I have a daughter and I sometimes talk about my daughter on my LinkedIn as a way to like, you know, share that I'm also human and also juggling, you know, parenthood and running

a business. And you know, that that's quite popular because that resonates with a lot of like senior marketers who also have children. But, you know, thinking about things like that or you know, what activities they enjoy going to. So can you do an event around like a triathlon if they're all triathletes? Um, you know, how can you get in front of them and like, build a connection that isn't, you know, just

buy from us right now.

Mm. Okay.

All right. So we've talked about brand relationships, trust, long time nurturing and now personalisation. Um, so let's just finish with just we're nearly at the end. But um, maybe we can talk about um, we

can talk about demand generation. Now, one of the things that we've seen luxury brands in our, you know, when we've been preparing this podcast episode, struggle with is distinguishing between passionate interest and devotion to a brand. And

capacity to pay. So we had the chap from Cartier who was saying that there are some people that will consume Cartier content for their entire lives and perhaps buy one ring or one, uh, one necklace. And in B2B, we face a similar thing. Frequently we want to provide content that is really fascinating and interesting

but then you might have people that are showing a huge amount of intent, but work for a business that's just not quite the right fit. And so being able to distinguish between companies, people that are really buying into the the mission that you're setting out there as a B2B or as a luxury brand, and the lifestyle perhaps of the luxury brand and those that are going to be your long time high

value customers is a challenge. Um, column and Sonya, all the B2B guys, what do you think are, you know, potentially some connections there? What have been what have been the challenges in luxury that you've seen and how are they? How do you resolve those?

Yeah, I

mean sorry.

Go for it. Sorry, Catherine. Go for it.

Yeah. I mean, I was going to say that I think brand advocates are extremely useful and powerful because, you know, they may not be your frequent purchasers or they may not be your best customers, but they might share that content with

their whole audience. And that might get you ten new customers or they might, you know, be advocating and absolutely raving about it to all their friends and family, even though they only have one one iPhone or, I don't know, whatever it is. Um, and that then makes them all buy it. So, I mean, your brand advocates are perhaps some of your best

salespeople and, you know, in some ways might actually be more valuable than your highest paying customer because they could influence ten other people to buy from you where that high paying customer might only buy, you know, one, one super yacht or whatever it is. So, I mean, I actually see a lot more value in

brand advocates who can basically act as your salespeople because they believe in what you're doing so much and are shouting it from the rooftops and helping you to get that reach and helping you to, like, access an audience rather than like only focusing on it from a commercial direct sales point of view. So it's almost like they're more top and mid funnel and

then, you know, they're encouraging those purchases that are more bottom of funnel, where if you only look at it from a commercial point of view, then you might only see the people who are actively buying as the most valuable. But I don't think I, I don't think I agree with that.

Um, so yeah, I mean, some of those luxury brands. Yeah. Some

of those luxury brands have moved into using things like TikTok shop now, for example, um, to I guess, to your point, to kind of increase and widen the net, as it were. Sorry. Sonya.

Yeah.

No, I was just going to say we, um, Bentley did something very well, very different and very unusual for them

They, um, approached us to wanted to, in association with us, and Bentley wanted to go into Bentley, um, pride Brighton. And they needed I mean, that's quite a bold step for them, but it was important that they needed to show that, you know, they understood, um

and that, you know, the diversity of, of, you know, people and that not, you know, not everyone's the same. And that this was something really outside of their normal, um, marketing approach. So we, in collaboration with an influencer, um, the Vivienne, who's very well known in that community, um

and she actually, you know, drove the car through the parade. We created a bespoke car for pride, um, in pride colors. It was created and designed by a local artist in Brighton, pop artist who's very I wasn't aware at the time, but very famous. And, you know, we created

this really it was a very, you know, aspirational, you know, the content that that would never have happened 2 or 3 years ago. But Bentley needed to really, you know, show that they are a brand for everyone, that they do understand and appreciate. People come from very different backgrounds and you can't, you know, target people

you know, or pigeonhole people in a way that says, well, you would never drive a Bentley. And it was so successful. And the the leverage we got and the reach we got by using an influencer, I mean, I could have driven the car in pride, but that wouldn't have created anywhere near the kind of story. Um, I had 20 people from Harvard

walking with the car because we had to protect the car and it but, you know, that was the, you know, we needed to do something. And that was the first time, I think, Bentley had ever used collaboration with influencers and celebrities in a way that really, as I said, you know, it resonated with a completely different community and audience.

Um, Jen, have

you have you ever seen a B2B?

So apologies, Sonya and Jen, I just wanted to ask, have you ever seen a B2B brand leverage brand advocates or influencers in in that way?

Um, I know some are. I just wanted to add on to actually the points

that were already made that a lot of the like a brand advocate, even if they aren't able to purchase now, they may be able to in the future, like if they, for example, like switch jobs, switch industries, or just start their own job. So I'd say it's like never discount the power of like a brand advocate

Um, and I think like we see them like examples of it all the time sharing content on social. Um, I don't think it has to be something huge and significant, but if someone sharing something, even with their network that is going out of their way to share something that they think is cool, whether that's a GIF

or a meme or a funny video. Um, so I think there's a lot of ways to really work with like advocates within the industry, um, especially in B2B, um, they might be just like a thought leader as well. Um, for example, bring them into like a podcast or a webinar

or, um, featuring them in a piece of content. I think that's a really good way to kind of work in, um, brand advocacy into B2B marketing.

All right.

Well, look, everyone, thank you so much for being part of this podcast today. It's been a really fascinating, uh, episode. I really hope

um, you've got something from it. Um, I really appreciate giving all of your time. Um, we will meet next week to review this, the document that's produced from this, and make sure you're all happy with it. And I will also make sure that you are all invited to the community so that you can continue the conversation. If you have any more thoughts or things you'd like to share

Um, and we can do it there. But thank you all so much.

Lovely to meet you all. Thank you.

Thanks everyone.

Speak to you soon. Thanks a lot. Thanks. Bye.